I have the basic offset set. And the coffee is medium roasted. But the espresso tastes really bitter
by Philipp_Nut
20 Comments
[deleted]
[deleted]
National_Way_3344
Grind ⭐ finer ⭐
natte-krant
Definitely start by grinder finer but there are a lot of other factors as well; roast level (medium is not always medium..), brew temperature, bean type; even brew pressure can have an impact.
Best thing to do is taste and make small adjustments. Don’t try everything at once. Also; the 1:2 in +- 26 seconds isn’t the holy grail, it’s on average the best indicator for a potentially good shot. So don’t focus too much on that and focus on tasting extensively 🙂
therealorangechump
bitterness is due to over-extraction
over-extraction is due to a low coffee-to-water ratio
increase the coffee dose
decrease the extraction time
grind finer
tamp harder
EDIT: I am assuming the shot is over-extracted (the usual cause of bitterness). however, judging from the video it looks like the shot is under-extracted which normally results in a sour taste.
maybe by “bitter” OP meant too strong. maybe OP is getting a ristretto instead of espresso and this wasn’t the intended result.
mcspend
Why do people here recommend to grind finer?!
I‘d probably work on the dose as someone has mentioned already and then try to get the time more towards 20s by grinding coarser.
Also, have you always been an espresso drinker? Sometimes people who are used to coffee from pods or some other weak stuff find any properly extracted espresso too intense.
Tratschwelle1875
Bitterness is a over-extraction. Reduce the temperature from 94 to 92 or even 90. Grind coarser. The pressure on your machine seems a little bit too high as well.
TheOnlyNemesis
Odd that the machine starts the timer from the very start. Looks like you have 7 seconds of pre infusion and then a 19/20 seconds of actual extraction. Grind finer and see if that helps. I was always told the extraction timer starts when the full pressure is applied. So you are aiming for 32 to 37 seconds on the machines timer.
jbellas
Are those thin jets you see sometimes normal?
I get them too and I thought it was because of the paper filter at the bottom, which could be broken from running the WDT through it, but sometimes without a filter they also come out.
dathudo
Some of the answers you’ve gotten here are dead wrong, and others are trying to correct it. I can only imagine you being confused about what to believe.
Try looking up a few tutorials on youtube on how to dial in espresso. There are multiple ways to lower the extraction, which is probably what you need to do here.
Another thing to try (although please try to only change one thing at a time). Try another ratio. I had the hardest time dialing in while aiming for a 1:2 ratio, but then i tried going for 1:3 and everything fell into place.
Philipp_Nut
EDIT: I tested and got 34g in 31 secs. Played with the paddle to get around 9 bar. What settings can I change it is better than the beginning but still bitter. Should I increase the temp ?
all_systems_failing
What basket are you using? What’s your dose and how much headspace do you have?
h3yn0w75
Ignore everyone saying to grind finer.
Too bitter = over extracted. You want to reduce extraction. There are several ways to reduce extraction , such as grinding coarser , reducing brew temp. However the most impactful variable and the one I would recommend you dial in first is your ratio. If it’s bitter and over extracted try a shorter ratio. If you go too far you will start to get sour notes so find the right balance.
The other thing I would consider is your beans. Some beans and roasts will have an inherent bitterness you will never completely dial out.
Used-Potential-8428
Try darker Italian style beans. That’s what did it for me
It’s obvious you have some channeling too from the video, which can be one of 2 things:
* Either too high dose for the basket you’re using. An empirical way to check it is either by the coin method, or if you’re using the default lelit tamper, tamper should be all the way in the basket.
* You grind too fine. I have a lelit Mara X and I rarely if ever go to the typical 30sec rule for 1:2. Medium roasts should be ground coarser than dark as are a bit harder to extract (you’re also muting some of the coffee flavors imo)
Puck preparation is not as important as people claim compared to the above. Start by dosage and grind size.
You should not use the paddle to dial in shot time. That’s a manual flow control valve and it’s for fine tuning. When dialing in the shot, leave that valve wide open (rotate counter clockwise). If the pressure is above 10 bar, lower it per the manufacturer’s instructions.
After I have the shot where I like it, I use the flow control valve to increase extraction with a lower dose. There are other strategies but that’s what I do.
Oh, and lower your temp to 91C.
And_Poop
Too bitter means overextracted.
You can adjust the following variables:
– Grind coarser, this will reduce the extraction and the amount of fine particles in your drink. The coffee will taste more bitter, and you will feel more acidity. However, you might lose some body. Keep in mind that by grinding coarser the shot will flow much faster. If it gets too fast you’ll have compensate for this by increasing your dose.
– Dose. I don’t know what your current dose is, but you can reduce the extraction by reducing it. A higher dose increases puck resistance, which leads to a longer contact time which means higher extraction. Thus for your problem a smaller dose should improve your shot. I would personally play with the dose if your shot is not too bitter. If it is very bitter, I’d grind coarser, and if the shot flows too fast I would increase the dose by a a gram or so until the shot tastes nice.
– Temperature, a high temperature extracts more stuff. An overly high temperature extracts unwanted harsh flavors. This is usually the last variable I change, especially given that you have a medium roast that requires higher temperatures. This one really depends on your machine. My machine doesn’t get very hot so my temp is set to max, but you can look at a recommended temp for a medium roast online and try to shoot for something similar. If it’s too high, decreasing it should reduce the bitterness.
20 Comments
[deleted]
Grind ⭐ finer ⭐
Definitely start by grinder finer but there are a lot of other factors as well; roast level (medium is not always medium..), brew temperature, bean type; even brew pressure can have an impact.
Best thing to do is taste and make small adjustments. Don’t try everything at once.
Also; the 1:2 in +- 26 seconds isn’t the holy grail, it’s on average the best indicator for a potentially good shot. So don’t focus too much on that and focus on tasting extensively 🙂
bitterness is due to over-extraction
over-extraction is due to a low coffee-to-water ratio
increase the coffee dose
decrease the extraction time
grind finer
tamp harder
EDIT: I am assuming the shot is over-extracted (the usual cause of bitterness). however, judging from the video it looks like the shot is under-extracted which normally results in a sour taste.
maybe by “bitter” OP meant too strong. maybe OP is getting a ristretto instead of espresso and this wasn’t the intended result.
Why do people here recommend to grind finer?!
I‘d probably work on the dose as someone has mentioned already and then try to get the time more towards 20s by grinding coarser.
Also, have you always been an espresso drinker? Sometimes people who are used to coffee from pods or some other weak stuff find any properly extracted espresso too intense.
Bitterness is a over-extraction. Reduce the temperature from 94 to 92 or even 90. Grind coarser. The pressure on your machine seems a little bit too high as well.
Odd that the machine starts the timer from the very start. Looks like you have 7 seconds of pre infusion and then a 19/20 seconds of actual extraction. Grind finer and see if that helps. I was always told the extraction timer starts when the full pressure is applied. So you are aiming for 32 to 37 seconds on the machines timer.
Are those thin jets you see sometimes normal?
I get them too and I thought it was because of the paper filter at the bottom, which could be broken from running the WDT through it, but sometimes without a filter they also come out.
Some of the answers you’ve gotten here are dead wrong, and others are trying to correct it. I can only imagine you being confused about what to believe.
Try looking up a few tutorials on youtube on how to dial in espresso. There are multiple ways to lower the extraction, which is probably what you need to do here.
Another thing to try (although please try to only change one thing at a time). Try another ratio. I had the hardest time dialing in while aiming for a 1:2 ratio, but then i tried going for 1:3 and everything fell into place.
EDIT: I tested and got 34g in 31 secs. Played with the paddle to get around 9 bar. What settings can I change it is better than the beginning but still bitter. Should I increase the temp ?
What basket are you using? What’s your dose and how much headspace do you have?
Ignore everyone saying to grind finer.
Too bitter = over extracted. You want to reduce extraction. There are several ways to reduce extraction , such as grinding coarser , reducing brew temp. However the most impactful variable and the one I would recommend you dial in first is your ratio. If it’s bitter and over extracted try a shorter ratio. If you go too far you will start to get sour notes so find the right balance.
The other thing I would consider is your beans. Some beans and roasts will have an inherent bitterness you will never completely dial out.
Try darker Italian style beans. That’s what did it for me
This is a great tool to help you dial in
https://www.baristahustle.com/the-espresso-compass/
Must be the sticker on the grouphead
Coffee: my ultimate escape.
It’s obvious you have some channeling too from the video, which can be one of 2 things:
* Either too high dose for the basket you’re using. An empirical way to check it is either by the coin method, or if you’re using the default lelit tamper, tamper should be all the way in the basket.
* You grind too fine. I have a lelit Mara X and I rarely if ever go to the typical 30sec rule for 1:2. Medium roasts should be ground coarser than dark as are a bit harder to extract (you’re also muting some of the coffee flavors imo)
Puck preparation is not as important as people claim compared to the above. Start by dosage and grind size.
https://preview.redd.it/dnc10brv1lmd1.jpeg?width=2550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4806540f83508aae088a7ff8363b559604dbe8e
May you find what you want here.
You should not use the paddle to dial in shot time. That’s a manual flow control valve and it’s for fine tuning. When dialing in the shot, leave that valve wide open (rotate counter clockwise). If the pressure is above 10 bar, lower it per the manufacturer’s instructions.
After I have the shot where I like it, I use the flow control valve to increase extraction with a lower dose. There are other strategies but that’s what I do.
Oh, and lower your temp to 91C.
Too bitter means overextracted.
You can adjust the following variables:
– Grind coarser, this will reduce the extraction and the amount of fine particles in your drink. The coffee will taste more bitter, and you will feel more acidity. However, you might lose some body. Keep in mind that by grinding coarser the shot will flow much faster. If it gets too fast you’ll have compensate for this by increasing your dose.
– Dose. I don’t know what your current dose is, but you can reduce the extraction by reducing it. A higher dose increases puck resistance, which leads to a longer contact time which means higher extraction. Thus for your problem a smaller dose should improve your shot. I would personally play with the dose if your shot is not too bitter. If it is very bitter, I’d grind coarser, and if the shot flows too fast I would increase the dose by a a gram or so until the shot tastes nice.
– Temperature, a high temperature extracts more stuff. An overly high temperature extracts unwanted harsh flavors. This is usually the last variable I change, especially given that you have a medium roast that requires higher temperatures. This one really depends on your machine. My machine doesn’t get very hot so my temp is set to max, but you can look at a recommended temp for a medium roast online and try to shoot for something similar. If it’s too high, decreasing it should reduce the bitterness.
Hope this helps, good luck!