I have tried several recipes, each several times, over the past year and have tightened up many variables in terms of starter strength, dough temp, hydration, etc, but it never occurred to me that it could be necessary to bulk ferment for anything like 10 hours as people have mentioned in the comments. I am going to try an overnight rise because the bread is now good but not great. It’s still slightly gummy. I love the bakery sourdough bread but it’s become too expensive.
The question: Why would it take dough an extra several hours beyond a recipe’s instructions? Any basic sourdough bread recipe so far, (perfect loaf, Alexandra cooks, Grant bakes, (links below) among others) I am matching the variables listed above and using the same flours they use. Is it possible to bulk ferment for a whole day? Why are the recipe writers’ timings so much shorter than the dough seems to want? How long can it go without becoming overproofed?
Thank you for any light you can shed.
Links to three sites follow:
https://www.theperfectloaf.com/beginners-sourdough-bread/
by Potato-chipsaregood
22 Comments
Temperature is the main factor. The ideal bulk fermentation time is very closely related to ambient temp. There are online calculators for this.
Not only that! A lot of recipes suggest 20-50% rise before moving on to shaping. I haven’t really seen any downside to waiting until it doubles.
There are so many things that can affect the speed of your bulk. As an example, my bulk at current ambient temperature has been running a consistent 3 hours 30 minutes. So from the time I add starter to dough until my dough has expanded by 40% is 3 1/2 hours. Last weekend I was putting my dough together and realized that the einkorn I was adding was in the freezer. I went ahead and used it and my bulk took 5 hours. The einkorn was only 10% of the flour.
When I have to put my starter in the fridge for extended periods I feel that my starter activity suffers and I need to strengthen it.
The secret here is to only proof by % rise and not time. [Here is a link that could help you a lot](https://youtu.be/p69UMuYJhJs?si=PjHJehOedQCdauQq). That is Sourdough Journey and the episode I’ve linked to is one where he talks about % rise. It is a bit dry and long but the lesson is worth the watch.
Good luck and keep trying!
In my experience the books/vids of popular bakers always mention shorter times than it actually takes. I’ve found that multiple feedings days leading up to prep makes a huge difference.
Usually if I do that diligently and then let it bulk near a window or place that’s warm (I live in Tennessee) it usually takes a solid 4.
Heat and a very active starter can get you over most hurdles. Then you just have to worry about prep and technique.
As they say, watch the dough, not the clock. That was a big a-ha moment for me.
Because every ingredient is different in every environment. Some flours have a higher sugar content than others. Not every yeast is the same. Not every kitchen has the same temperature and humidity level. Whether you bulk ferment inside a sealed container or just covering the dough with a tea towel makes a difference. All these variables can make a small difference in the final product. That’s why you should never ever trust the recipe as if it’s a fool proof method.
Most recipes aren’t scientific. For example, when the recipe says let the dough double in size, unless you are using a tall container with perfectly flat sides and you have a lot of experience, you cannot visually judge doubling the dough.
That’s why you cannot follow the recipe’s suggested bulk fermentation blindly.
If your dough (assuming it’s mostly a spherical shape) is sitting on the counter with the diameter of x and it doubles in size (2x), the dough hasn’t doubled in volume. It has increased by 8 times!!!!
You have to experiment to see what works in your environment. Always follow recipes (no matter who wrote them) as suggestions and starting points. Not as something that cannot be questioned.
these days my BF usually takes from 7 to 10 hours, sometimes I leave it overnight. Honestly, I don’t pay too much attention to the dough and temperature and everything. My bread is still gummy and honestly i don’t see much of a difference between 7 hours or overnight.
it feels like I have to go even further than that. I wanna try something like a 12-14 hour bulk ferment, just to see what’s gonna happen. I’m using a 14% protein flour so maybe it can take that long of a proof.
Right now I have a small piece of dough in my fridge that is left from an aliquot of a bread I made. It has been in the fridge for a week and it is still fermenting and rising, somewhat. I feel like the bulk should be much longer
Temperature, how much starter you add are the main factors. The type of flour makes a difference too – wholemeal flour tends to make the dough more active.
It’s worth thinking about how to use it to your advantage rather than worrying about the time in a recipe. For example depending on the weather and your life, you can make the fermentation go faster or slower.
Yep. I use the times given as suggestions and usually just double them /go by looks. I get pretty good results. What I get wouldn’t win any blue ribbon from its looks, but the bread ends up tasting great anyway. That’s all that matters to me.
Dough temperature is as important as ambient. Find the sourdough journey guy. He is fabulous at explaining all things sour dough.
I’ve been doing an overnight prove for over 5 years. It ticks down to 10ish hours if the house is warmer and more humid, but it consistently stays at 11-13 hours. My loaves are not overproved. I just have stopped arguing with people and do bread my way and get consistently good results (and I sell them).
I use this overnight recipe and it comes out great every time. And it is super easy.
[https://www.culturedfoodlife.com/overnight-sourdough-bread/](https://www.culturedfoodlife.com/overnight-sourdough-bread/)
Hi. Bulk fermentation is just a part of the fermentation process. Determined by when the Bulk Dough is split ajd fsshioned / shaped into indvidual loaves before proofing either at room temperature or in cold retard to use up all available sugars and maximise the oven spring.
Phases:
• Mixing dough: The start of bulk fermentation.
This is basic method only put dry ingredients in bowl and combine. Add water and levain stir with stiff spoon or hand until all dry flour is combined. At this stage you have a chance to adjust your hydration to suit the flour but, over the next hour or two the flour will absorb more of the free fluids. So, aim for stickier than drier. I work the dough at this stage to a ensure that the dough is binding as a cohesive ‘ball’. Now the dough needs to rest.
Fermentation is a continuous process. Usually split in two. Bulk fermenttion is when multiple loaves are fermented together im one batch. Then proofing after the ‘ bulk ‘ has been reduced to individual loaves and shaped. Often times the proofing is done in refridgerated conditions to refine baking process. Especially with sourdough.
It is important to adjust the point at which the one finishes and the other starts. There needs tp be just enough ‘food’ to sustain the yeast through to baking. This is usually guaged by the % rise in vplume of the raw dough. The longer the intended proofing the lower the % age rise. There are several other ways to guage the curtailment point tho.
My preferred rise is about 75%. I measure the volume of the just mixed dough and then finish the ferment in a bowl marked to double that.
Hope this is of use
Happy baking
Oh, yeah… I wasnt using peak starter so my bulk ferments were taking longer. Then one time I used peak with a whole wheat with rye instead of my usual bread flour… and my house was 76F to boot… doubled in 3hrs instead of my normal 6-8.
Not all yeast feed and reproduce at the same rate, so what species of yeast are in your starter can make a difference, too. No matter how healthy and robust it is, if it is one that takes longer to complete its life cycle to reproduce, it is going to take longer to inoculate the whole dough and get it risen. The yeast in my first starter are some slower variety, I can do peak to peak 1:1:1 and get really quick peaks, but for a whole dough, it just takes forever to BF. I was under proofing nearly every loaf following suggested times for dough temps.
This week, using a new starter I rehydrated from an online source, it BF in the exact time suggested in all the charts, shaped beautifully and the bread is fabulous! I also have another one I use for pizza dough that always BFs in the time expected and makes perfect pizza dough. Now that I have figured out that this first starter just takes longer, I don’t watch the clock so much, and have gotten better at reading the dough.
Mine bulks in de fridge for anywhere between 12 and 24 hours.
The longer the better. More flavor. I use cold water and have a very cold house. Can take 18 hours.
It’s not just you. I use a starter that I don’t have discard. Basically I pull it from the fridge the day before I’m going to prep my dough. Actually, the night before. I feed it. I leave it on the counter overnight. The next morning about 7:00 to 8:00, I do my auto lease with just flour and dough. And the starter and salt after 30 minutes, stretch and fold five times, and leave it rising on the counter until about 5:00 p.m. Then I shape and put it in the fridge overnight. Take them out in the morning and do a cold start with my oven for the first loaf because I don’t like wasting energy, but the second, and call it a day. The extra starter from my loafs go in the fridge after I add it in the morning. I don’t touch it or pull it out again until I’m ready to do another round of all of the above. I don’t feed it daily and I never will. It’s totally fine. I also use pure rye flour maybe they have something to do with it.
Hours of bulk ferment will only ever be an estimate based on several conditions:
Strength of your starter.
Temperature of water used in the dough.
Room Temperature / Proofing Temperature.
Dough Temperature.
What % rise is desired during bulk fermentation.
Whether the shaped dough will be proofed at room temperature or cold retarded.
Honestly, I would ignore any recipe that lists only time for any phase of baking sourdough. Unless you have their starter, their flour, an identical recipe and you’re in their house, it’s not going to be accurate and will lead to frustration! My bread got so much better when I stopped watching the clock and focussed on the dough.
Temperature and starter strength are the main factors that affect BF time. I’m also starting to believe that higher hydration dough ferments more quickly (at least it seems to in my house!) but have never seen anyone else mention this.
A lot of the videos I’ve seen are American, a completely different climate than mine here in the U.K. I’ve seen Americans using high hydration recipes who only let their dough rise 30% before putting it in the fridge. Mine would be a puck if I did that!
Even in my own house, there’s a distinct difference between BF times in summer and winter – in summer it can take 6-7 hours. In winter you can almost double that.
There’s other factors – how acidic is your starter? Long BFs plus an acidic starter can cause gluten to break down so even if the fermentation isn’t ideal, the dough can start to get sticky and lose structure. Overnight proofs can do this IME. Percentage of starter may need to be adjusted.
Basically it’s all very complex. Lots of factors involved. You have to work out what works best in your home with your starter.
Cold ambient temps are mitigated by using warm water in your recipe. It seems to me from my experience that once the wild yeast has activated, it becomes less dependent on keeping the smbient temperature warm.
Been sourdough baking for 8 years…and have had the same experience with, for example, Perfect Loaf. Delicious formulas but everything came out underproofed following his timing.
Best tip I have learned…when it looks like it might be ready or close (smooth top, maybe a bubble on the side) reach in and pull the dough up and away from the sides. I use square bins so I tip the bin toward me and reach in to get my fingertips on the bottom of the bin. Pull the dough up. If you see gluten strands, it is ready. If still one blob with no strands, give it another hour.
I use a Brod and Taylor proofer so everything should be under control, but still this test is invaluable and has led to not a single underproofed loaf in two years.
I am also fascinated as to why I have completely different experiences with the same dough, same equipment, in Oakland (foggy, cool) and Ft Jones (extremely dry and very hot in the summer). Every single time I have wildly happy starter in Ft Jones and every loaf comes out just right. Whereas I have the occasional slack loaf, even a bit too dense of a loaf, in Oakland. In Ft Jones we have highly alkaline spring water, untreated. Oakland, city water. Go figure.
Re Beginners Sourdough, I had to completely rewrite the timings and now it’s a fave. He says 4 1/2 hour bulk…for me it is 6 1/2. Then 10-14 hrs (depends on my schedule!) in the frig, about an hour in the proofer at 75 if I have time. Otherwise like many loves I bake right out of the frig. Handy also with high hydration doughs that can stick to the banneton. When it’s cold it comes right out!
One variable that is often ignored is that each sourdough biome is unique (if you’ve made your own starter) thus times and temps for rising won’t be the same as others. If you really need to make ‘perfect loafs’ I would suggest you make your own time/temperature rise plots. ( but this is only of use if you have temp controlled proving etc)
Personally I’m only a home baker interested in making great tasting bread to eat, so I live with some variability with rise. I either do an overnight rise or an all day rise as this fits into my normal life.